Hi,
giner wrote:
> Maybe it's not so much that men have a better sense of how to fit
> in, but more due to the differences in how men and women view
> success. I know I'm making quite a broad generalization here, but
> I think men are taught that to be successful they must have a
> successful career and makes lots of money. And to play all those
> career games, because their ability to 'move up' is judged on
> those terms. Most women that I know have a much broader view of
> success, one that includes having a nice place to live, a
> significant other to share their lives with, a family, etc.
I think we're forgetting that there are many male scientists who aren't
prepared to kill for their career, and who *do* value their families and the
rest of their lives. Those men aren't always as successful as the barking,
bloodthirsty hounds that you have been using as examples, but perhaps you're
biased about who you want to compare yourself to... As a contrast to what the
rest of you have said, most women my age that *I* know, who are heading for a
scientific career, are actually some real geeks and goofballs who don't care
too much about getting a life (they're my friends and I think they know that I
don't mean to hurt their feelings, and I'm a geek myself). All the other
(smart) girls who got a Ph.D. didn't even consider a career in academia.
The reason we're having this discussion is that women who want a life aren't as
accepted by this system as men who want a life. A man is welcome at any level,
super star or family man, but a woman *has* to be a superstar, or at least try
to be one. That's why you'll never win by trying to implement the get-a-life
view. Before you go on complaining about coldhearted males, at least give some
credit to those men who don't want to buy into the hardboiled go-getter
attitude, the quiet guys who get home at 5 p.m. to be with the family. I come
from Sweden, someone said it's the most gender equal country in the world, and
we have a new motto:
True equality is when an average woman can get as far ahead as an average man.
There, I've been a real bitch now
Ann Magnuson
